DoF PC Wins

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Post by G »

You always know when an higher ranked duelist wins a lower ranked tournament because they never duel the rest of the cycle, or at most one duel.

The trend I note is that the higher ranked duelists will enter the lower ranked tournaments so their lower ranked duelist can get the buffer to get closer to the next rank. I would say it hurts the lesser experienced duelists who want to actually accomplish something because the more experienced duelists will almost always beat out the guys who have only a fraction of the experience.

Sure, there's some "upsets", but that usually comes when the higher ranked duelists faces another higher ranked duelist who doesn't know who plays who.

Alternatively, with the small player base we have, it's hard to have a tournament of any kind without someone with a lot of experience involved in some way. Otherwise you might have a low ranked tournament with like, three to five people only in it.

Also, this isn't a new thing. It's been a factor as far back as I can remember, since the first Talon or Claw has been fought.
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Post by Hope »

This is a topic that I used to be very passionate about echoing a lot of the thoughts already stated in the thread previously. I didn't really like the thought of a Sapphire winning the PC which I always considered to be an augment to help lower ranked duelists climb the ranks.

After a year or two of watching them go by I kind of mellowed out on the subject (having never won one myself :P ). Some people really enjoy the thrill of dueling in a tournament. The PC is for all intents and purposes like a miniature Diamond Quest. It's a lot of fun to get seeded, to see who might end up fighting who and to just be able to experience something that isn't regulation dueling. It's a unique experience and outside of events like The Great Stag it's one of the few that can give the rush you might get from a Challenge.

On the idea of Wins being granted I like the idea that anyone under Sapphire should earn their wins in the PC. Sapphires trying for the PC are essentially gunning to have a fun time or the achievement. I don't see why this is any less valid than someone trying to get it to hit Emerald faster.

What I would like to point out though is if someone is a lower ranking duelist and hasn't been Emerald before by example of Emerald alts in the PC, a lot of Emeralds are currently active. As Jewell pointed out on any given regulation shift you're bound to bump into a few, often title holders! The reason I bring this up is because the PC can be a wonderful utility to help people hit Emerald, but so can being someone's mentee. There are a lot of us around that could always pick up a mentee and would love to earnestly help lower ranks climb their way on up.


**Edit(x2): My thoughts on taking wins from PC

Run the PC exactly as you do now but during regulation hours. Single elimination and simply omit every contestant's first loss while granting the wins. Does that sound viable?

2nd Edit: Make the PC on a regulation Fist only night and make the entire night an event where everyone's first loss is forgiven. The PC can be single elim so if everyone showing up fights in it first, it's omitted. This would still give a boon to regulation dueling while possibly boosting PC attendance.
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Post by DemiBob »

Strictly in response to the original issue of giving wins in the PC, I think *any* wins would be good. 1 win to show up, let people keep their wins, a DoM style thing where the top few players get a few wins or something -- anything will bring people out.

I see no solution to making sure the PC itself goes to someone who will use it, though. The RoK probably has the best method of handling it but no one wants to scrap the PC Tournament all together.
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Post by King »

DemiBob wrote:I see no solution to making sure the PC itself goes to someone who will use it, though.
There is no solution outside of something most likely so tedious that many will not want to bother with it. Basically it's hope you win and that's that. If a duelist would like a mod though, I'm sure there's Emeralds how there who would be willing to mentor them. While I understand the frustration of a lower rank wanting the help of the PC, it's one of those things where to the victor goes the spoils. There's no balanced solution. Some will want the PC for strictly achievement reasons, some will want it for the benefit of the mod, some will want it just for the history. There's no right or wrong choice in that. It's just whoever wins it wins it.
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Post by Kalamere »

My take is that I don't actually see a reason to give the benefit of wins achieved in the PC to a person's record.

Ultimately, to me at least, it's about incentive to join the event. Looking at the last few, we tend to get 12 to 16 participants in the PC each cycle, which seems like a pretty good number. Offering wins is a nice incentive for people to come out if they hadn't planned to already, but I don't see it having that big an impact on the entrant numbers since this does not trail behind what we see in tournaments that do offer this incentive.

If something were to be done along these lines, I'd much rather see it be a retention of positive WoL from tournament fights than straight up win count. (eg: go 0-1, no impact. go 2-1, that's +1 WoL to your record.) Overall, I don't see a reason to throw the losses out altogether but I can see the risk of hurting your record by entering being a disincentive to do so and therefore wouldn't want to ding anyone for losing in the first round.
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Post by King »

Kalamere wrote:If something were to be done along these lines, I'd much rather see it be a retention of positive WoL from tournament fights than straight up win count. (eg: go 0-1, no impact. go 2-1, that's +1 WoL to your record.)
100% agree with this route if WoL's were to become a factor.
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Post by Luna Eva »

Kalamere wrote:Ultimately, to me at least, it's about incentive to join the event.
If this is really the case, then it's hard to fault the argument. But my understanding is that one of the goals of the tournament itself is to boost lower-ranked duelists. It's been pointed out in this thread that this tournament is often heavily attended by Emerald alts, or tournament-only fighters. In that case, a fighter like me with less actual experience, has less incentive to participate, because I'm likely to repeat the pattern (if I'm lucky) of winning a couple early round fights only to lose to a more experienced fighter before getting the benefit of the tournament. So, my incentive to participate as a new duelist is diminished. I'm better off just continuing to try to find people closer to my level to fight during regulation duels. Which, as has also been pointed out in this thread, is not always easy.

So if general attendance is all that matters, then maybe there is no reason to retain wins. But if boosting new duelists is important, then I think there is a reason to retain wins.
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Post by Hope »

Kalamere wrote: If something were to be done along these lines, I'd much rather see it be a retention of positive WoL from tournament fights than straight up win count. (eg: go 0-1, no impact. go 2-1, that's +1 WoL to your record.)
That seems to be the same line of thought I was taking with my suggestion above. I mean at the very least someone gets to duel, and if they lose once, it's no biggy. Realistically if it's happening on a Reg night, why not just make them all regulation and take off your first loss of a night? There's no bonus incentive but people aren't not earning wins when.. they're winning.
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