Overlord Squire Weapon
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- Delahada
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I like shield... for reasons of "different" and "versatility." It allows a duelist to use his or her own usual one-handed weapon, and gives an added bonus of shield-bashing into the mix. Aric stole my thoughts. Something reflective, like a lighthouse mirror. I also like the mother-of-pearl option. There's a mansion on the Overlord island isn't there? Maybe it's something that was hanging over a fireplace for however long, and somebody goes, "Huh. This could be useful." Polishes it up... Tada.
I never viewed the Overlord island as an authentic seafaring islander paradise so much as something some rich guy put a mansion on. Like... Johnny Depp. Your mileage may vary. But I like shield best. That's it.
ALSO: If you're wanting to dig up the squire histories... I know for a fact that Sal (I) was the first squire of Seaside, having won a tournament run by Jaycy. Neo Eternity was the first squire of New Haven(?). The one with the rapier. I remember, because there was a lot of banter about squire fighting squire, and Neo played up the rapier's annoyingly sentient telepathic ability wonderfully. If you use me and Neo as a baseline for searching posts... It probably wouldn't be too hard to compile a list, working backward through the forums and the standings. I don't know if it was always listed on the standings from the start, though.
I never viewed the Overlord island as an authentic seafaring islander paradise so much as something some rich guy put a mansion on. Like... Johnny Depp. Your mileage may vary. But I like shield best. That's it.
ALSO: If you're wanting to dig up the squire histories... I know for a fact that Sal (I) was the first squire of Seaside, having won a tournament run by Jaycy. Neo Eternity was the first squire of New Haven(?). The one with the rapier. I remember, because there was a lot of banter about squire fighting squire, and Neo played up the rapier's annoyingly sentient telepathic ability wonderfully. If you use me and Neo as a baseline for searching posts... It probably wouldn't be too hard to compile a list, working backward through the forums and the standings. I don't know if it was always listed on the standings from the start, though.
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Spell wrote:I'm going to need to see where this is said. All I see is that each weapon has some sort of ability / drawback that can be easily said is for RP reasons, but there isn't anything in the rules post about how this is how they get their mod ability -- since mods are an OOC mechanic.Sylus wrote:Generally, yes, Mods are an OOC mechanic used to indicate an advanced technique, however with the Squire weapons it pertains more to the magical nature of the weapon. The enchantment.
*emphasis in the rule itselfthe rules wrote: 2. Squires receive a weapon as listed below, and with that, one fancy above their normal up until they achieve the rank of Warlord Only Providing They Are Wielding The Squire's Weapon! This means if the Squire is using any weapon that is not the squire's, they do not get the fancy.
If you only get the fancy while wielding that specific weapon (eg: the white rapier of New Haven - not some other rapier you picked up elsewhere) then the implication has to be that the weapon itself carries the enchantment that grants the mod.
Yes, it is a mechanic and largely OOC, but we very often need to figure out an IC rationale for OOC things. The extra bit of skill that allows one to perform an advanced move one round flowing from the enchantment of the weapon makes sense both ic and ooc, given the way the "must be using the squire weapon" rule works.
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The history behind why the current weapons are what they are is cool and it is good to know. I'm not all that sure that it needs to be controlling precedent for the Overlord's squire though. This is something new, not part of the original squire batch and weapons that came with them. An after-thought or an enhancement, whatever. Especially considering it is now to go with the Overlord and not a baron, there's no reason it cannot be some other theme. I'd also say I (and maybe it is just me) think of the Barons as far more tied to their districts than the Overlord is tied to his Island. The Barons are named after the districts, on the other hand it is the island named after the Overlord. The Overlord is what's paramount. Overlord Isle could sink into the Bay tomorrow and I wouldn't think anything of it - we'd just find the OL somewhere new to live. Lose the Dockside district is some cataclysmic asteroid strike or something though? I think we now have only six baronies. Again, that could just be me.
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As to the weapon itself... I don't much care whether or not we allow it to be reforged. I like things that can add to the RP aspect, but realistically we're talking about one pretty picture exchanged between exactly two people. As such, it isn't something I'm going to get bent about one way or the other.
It's going to be one of those agree to disagree moments. Mods are purely OOC, and any fancy boost can be said to be something entierly different over an enchant that reflects more of an OOC nature than something IC. The reason a squire has the buff OOC is that they are gifted the weapon, the reason IC could be that they are training with the baron with said weapon, that's why they are stronger with it. The enchantment the squire weapons have, at least when explained to me, was for RP reasons and not to explain fancies. But I guess it's apples and oranges.Kalamere wrote:Spell wrote:I'm going to need to see where this is said. All I see is that each weapon has some sort of ability / drawback that can be easily said is for RP reasons, but there isn't anything in the rules post about how this is how they get their mod ability -- since mods are an OOC mechanic.Sylus wrote:Generally, yes, Mods are an OOC mechanic used to indicate an advanced technique, however with the Squire weapons it pertains more to the magical nature of the weapon. The enchantment.*emphasis in the rule itselfthe rules wrote: 2. Squires receive a weapon as listed below, and with that, one fancy above their normal up until they achieve the rank of Warlord Only Providing They Are Wielding The Squire's Weapon! This means if the Squire is using any weapon that is not the squire's, they do not get the fancy.
If you only get the fancy while wielding that specific weapon (eg: the white rapier of New Haven - not some other rapier you picked up elsewhere) then the implication has to be that the weapon itself carries the enchantment that grants the mod.
Yes, it is a mechanic and largely OOC, but we very often need to figure out an IC rationale for OOC things. The extra bit of skill that allows one to perform an advanced move one round flowing from the enchantment of the weapon makes sense both ic and ooc, given the way the "must be using the squire weapon" rule works.
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I know I don't give an opinion often, but this conversation struck a thought.
If the desire is to have Squire weapons that are representative of the locations of the "Homes" of the one they are a Squire to, A shield, how ever custom or modified, didn't really "Speak" of Overlord Isle ((To me at least)).
For that, I looked at what is the significant feature of Overlord Isle... A lighthouse. The first thing that came to me was a Heavy Duty Candle Lighter/snuffer (Like you often see acolytes carrying in churches). Yes, it is another Pole-arm style weapon, a bit like a double crooked Sheppard's staff. But with a bell shaped cup on one hook, and a extendable wick out the other...
But then I read some Lighthouse history... Did you know that at Alexandria, they some times used the mirrors from the light as weapons to blind those aboard encroaching enemy ships. I didn't, so, keeping with the popular Shield idea... A shield whose face is finished to a mirror like surface. It could have the ability to also act as a light source itself.
Just my two wooden pennies.
If the desire is to have Squire weapons that are representative of the locations of the "Homes" of the one they are a Squire to, A shield, how ever custom or modified, didn't really "Speak" of Overlord Isle ((To me at least)).
For that, I looked at what is the significant feature of Overlord Isle... A lighthouse. The first thing that came to me was a Heavy Duty Candle Lighter/snuffer (Like you often see acolytes carrying in churches). Yes, it is another Pole-arm style weapon, a bit like a double crooked Sheppard's staff. But with a bell shaped cup on one hook, and a extendable wick out the other...
But then I read some Lighthouse history... Did you know that at Alexandria, they some times used the mirrors from the light as weapons to blind those aboard encroaching enemy ships. I didn't, so, keeping with the popular Shield idea... A shield whose face is finished to a mirror like surface. It could have the ability to also act as a light source itself.
Just my two wooden pennies.
Andu Kirost. RTS founder and manager.
Dude. That's a GREAT idea. I didn't even know that about Alexandria and you've got me wanting to read more on it. Massive props, I'm so into this idea.Andu Kirost wrote:But then I read some Lighthouse history... Did you know that at Alexandria, they some times used the mirrors from the light as weapons to blind those aboard encroaching enemy ships. I didn't, so, keeping with the popular Shield idea... A shield whose face is finished to a mirror like surface. It could have the ability to also act as a light source itself.
- JewellRavenlock
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Just catching up this morning. As I was reading the posts, I was formulated a response. Then I got to Kal's post and basically.. yeah all of this.Kalamere wrote: The history behind why the current weapons are what they are is cool and it is good to know. I'm not all that sure that it needs to be controlling precedent for the Overlord's squire though. This is something new, not part of the original squire batch and weapons that came with them. An after-thought or an enhancement, whatever. Especially considering it is now to go with the Overlord and not a baron, there's no reason it cannot be some other theme. I'd also say I (and maybe it is just me) think of the Barons as far more tied to their districts than the Overlord is tied to his Island. The Barons are named after the districts, on the other hand it is the island named after the Overlord. The Overlord is what's paramount. Overlord Isle could sink into the Bay tomorrow and I wouldn't think anything of it - we'd just find the OL somewhere new to live. Lose the Dockside district is some cataclysmic asteroid strike or something though? I think we now have only six baronies. Again, that could just be me.
It's nice to know where things came from and the reasoning behind their creation. I don't see that it's necessary to stick to that.
Things change. It's not always a bad thing.
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Ditto.JewellRavenlock wrote:Just catching up this morning. As I was reading the posts, I was formulated a response. Then I got to Kal's post and basically.. yeah all of this.Kalamere wrote: The history behind why the current weapons are what they are is cool and it is good to know. I'm not all that sure that it needs to be controlling precedent for the Overlord's squire though. This is something new, not part of the original squire batch and weapons that came with them. An after-thought or an enhancement, whatever. Especially considering it is now to go with the Overlord and not a baron, there's no reason it cannot be some other theme. I'd also say I (and maybe it is just me) think of the Barons as far more tied to their districts than the Overlord is tied to his Island. The Barons are named after the districts, on the other hand it is the island named after the Overlord. The Overlord is what's paramount. Overlord Isle could sink into the Bay tomorrow and I wouldn't think anything of it - we'd just find the OL somewhere new to live. Lose the Dockside district is some cataclysmic asteroid strike or something though? I think we now have only six baronies. Again, that could just be me.
It's nice to know where things came from and the reasoning behind their creation. I don't see that it's necessary to stick to that.
Things change. It's not always a bad thing.
- Delahada
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I'm with Kalamere on this. The fact that the squire must use the weapon in order to receive the mod benefit to me explains where the "extra skill" comes from. I used that before when I was a squire. Probably both times. If I was using the extra squire mod, regardless of rank, I always implemented the specific weapon's ability into the move when I RP'd it.Spell wrote:It's going to be one of those agree to disagree moments. Mods are purely OOC, and any fancy boost can be said to be something entierly different over an enchant that reflects more of an OOC nature than something IC. The reason a squire has the buff OOC is that they are gifted the weapon, the reason IC could be that they are training with the baron with said weapon, that's why they are stronger with it. The enchantment the squire weapons have, at least when explained to me, was for RP reasons and not to explain fancies. But I guess it's apples and oranges.Kalamere wrote:Spell wrote: I'm going to need to see where this is said. All I see is that each weapon has some sort of ability / drawback that can be easily said is for RP reasons, but there isn't anything in the rules post about how this is how they get their mod ability -- since mods are an OOC mechanic.*emphasis in the rule itselfthe rules wrote: 2. Squires receive a weapon as listed below, and with that, one fancy above their normal up until they achieve the rank of Warlord Only Providing They Are Wielding The Squire's Weapon! This means if the Squire is using any weapon that is not the squire's, they do not get the fancy.
If you only get the fancy while wielding that specific weapon (eg: the white rapier of New Haven - not some other rapier you picked up elsewhere) then the implication has to be that the weapon itself carries the enchantment that grants the mod.
Yes, it is a mechanic and largely OOC, but we very often need to figure out an IC rationale for OOC things. The extra bit of skill that allows one to perform an advanced move one round flowing from the enchantment of the weapon makes sense both ic and ooc, given the way the "must be using the squire weapon" rule works.
For instance, Seaside's weapon is an enchanted glaive with the ability of "Teleportation / Questionable accuracy." So... Let's say I used FCP and it was successful. I'd say that Sal teleported behind his opponent. If it failed? I'd say the weapon glitched out and didn't work as he wanted. I'm pretty sure that when G created the weapons with those abilities he took that kind of thing in mind that the weapons were imperfect and could fail. I remember Cane, too, when he was the squire of Old Market (to Hope, I think) using the axe's "Luck / Not always good" ability in RP too. If he failed miserably and lost his duel, it was because the axe was cursed with bad luck, lol.
I very much like Andu's mirror shield idea, and pretty much suggested the same thing to Sylus in an IM while reading this. That reflects light thing could be the shield's special ability, and something that could work for or against a person depending on the limits of one's imagination.
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I want to say I think you made the right call opening the vote and picking the one that had the most votes. I think a Trident is totally badass and might end up just having Hope graduate from pole-school one day just to use one. I also just wanted to say that I think it goes a long way for your players that you chose the Shield, because you as a player had good reasoning in your Trident idea and though you wanted it, you as a Coordinator went with your players.
I think I have a flexible idea for the Shield that would please all parties. I give you *drumroll* the Crystal Shield.
I apologize for the image not being more clean but it's really the best one I could find at this size. We've had some ideas of making the shield unique while the desire remains that it should be like the other Squire weapons and should be *one* shield. We also have the desire to keep the weapons themselves reminiscent of where they come from. So you have the Overlord's Crystal Shield. It is made from the rare ores that are found on Overlord Isle and has crystals that can only be found on the island embedded within them. The enchant on it is to keep the crystals and the shield from being destroyed but sometimes when the Squire focuses they can use the light that the crystals harness to blind their opponents. Since the crystal is a prism, this could let a Squire use the same ability as another one and maybe emit a different kind of light. Red for rage, blue for tranquillity, etc.
I know this is off the wall a bit but it has everything we want: one item, each squire could play it differently and it reflects where the Overlord is from. I was thinking you could ask the kind people on the Twilight Isle to do the enchanting for you, so you could even have an IC event to commemorate it.
Edit: It even comes in icon-size!
Edit 2: lol wrong img url derp
I think I have a flexible idea for the Shield that would please all parties. I give you *drumroll* the Crystal Shield.
I apologize for the image not being more clean but it's really the best one I could find at this size. We've had some ideas of making the shield unique while the desire remains that it should be like the other Squire weapons and should be *one* shield. We also have the desire to keep the weapons themselves reminiscent of where they come from. So you have the Overlord's Crystal Shield. It is made from the rare ores that are found on Overlord Isle and has crystals that can only be found on the island embedded within them. The enchant on it is to keep the crystals and the shield from being destroyed but sometimes when the Squire focuses they can use the light that the crystals harness to blind their opponents. Since the crystal is a prism, this could let a Squire use the same ability as another one and maybe emit a different kind of light. Red for rage, blue for tranquillity, etc.
I know this is off the wall a bit but it has everything we want: one item, each squire could play it differently and it reflects where the Overlord is from. I was thinking you could ask the kind people on the Twilight Isle to do the enchanting for you, so you could even have an IC event to commemorate it.
Edit: It even comes in icon-size!
Edit 2: lol wrong img url derp
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While yes, it is something new and not from the batch of original squire weapons. It should still be "simple" in appearance and design, I dare say..functional.
I'm in favor of Andu's stance about a reflective mirror. I also remember the stories of Alexandra where those mirrors would set the sails of invading ships on fire using concentrated light. Could be the trade off with the enchantment where something could go wrong. Successful use of the Fancy, the shield emits a blinding light. Miss, the shield gets too hot to be held.
I'm in favor of Andu's stance about a reflective mirror. I also remember the stories of Alexandra where those mirrors would set the sails of invading ships on fire using concentrated light. Could be the trade off with the enchantment where something could go wrong. Successful use of the Fancy, the shield emits a blinding light. Miss, the shield gets too hot to be held.
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I'm not really sure how Andu's idea and mine differ. Both would be used to blind their opponents, or not, and one offers a lot of different play avenues. I just don't think it's a valuable trade off to gut a lot of play potential from: having a smith craft it, having an event on the isle to enchant it, having each Squire attune to it for the sake of "here's a mirror". I just don't really see why less is more in this case.Sylus Kurgen wrote:While yes, it is something new and not from the batch of original squire weapons. It should still be "simple" in appearance and design, I dare say..functional.
I'm in favor of Andu's stance about a reflective mirror. I also remember the stories of Alexandra where those mirrors would set the sails of invading ships on fire using concentrated light. Could be the trade off with the enchantment where something could go wrong. Successful use of the Fancy, the shield emits a blinding light. Miss, the shield gets too hot to be held.
With all that being said it's not my call.
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I was under the impression that it would be one mod per OL Squire weapon, total of two mods. I'm still catching up on things, so if that was addressed, I apologize.Corlanthis wrote:Is that why all the regular Baronial Squires get two mods from their weapon?Sylus Kurgen wrote: I'm against every Overlord being allowed to make a custom shield for their Squire because the other squires don't get to design their weapon of station, the Overlord Squire shouldn't be any different.
So now that we've established precedent for treating the Overlord Squire differently. . .
I think the idea of a personalized shield is awesome. Just give the shield some kind of thought-active substance that shapes itself to whatever shield the Squire wants when they take office or something. There are plenty of ways to write around this.
A suggestion on this? Since every Overlord is now customizing their belt and able to keep them then why not have a shield design that compliments that Overlord's belt. What about a lighthouse design somewhere on the shield since Overlord Island does have a lighthouse.
Here's a thought on this. Before the manors were added to the DM version of the map, Guthorm Othinsson's home was listed as being on Overlord Island. Being a Viking, Thorm was a believer in the Norse Pantheon. Gungnir, of the spear of Odin, it sometimes depicted as a trident of sorts.Spell wrote:Except it is. How does the trident represent Overlord Isle? Was there a fishing village there? There would have been fishing villages all over the coastline. So it doesn't represent the island itself, just the whole coast line. Then more mental gymnastics can be used. Why not have a viking weapon as the OL squire weapon, since the vikings raided from boats, boats come from land to sail on the water, the island is surrounded by water. A shield could be said to be a lost artifact from an old raiding ship. The shield could be from an armor set that's on display in Overlord Island manor. There's multiple ways to give it meaning.G wrote:That's not the same thing.Spell wrote: Slap an image of the Overlord isle on the shield as a crest. That way it represents it.
There's not one idea that can be used and said is a better fit over the other.
From the Marvel Wiki:
http://marvel.com/universe/Gungnir
- Kalamere
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One thing I think we've always sort of had to assume about both the squire weapons and the baron rings themselves is that they are enchanted to change size. This is probably more a case of the weapons really than the rings, since I guess the rings could be worn on alternative fingers or on a chain. For the weapons though, since we require that they be used by the squire, I think that logically we have to believe that they shrink or grow according to the needs of the wielder.
The assumptions is necessary for all of them I guess, but take the glaive of Seaside. Wikipedia tells me that a glaive is typically an 18" blade attached to a 6 or 7 foot pole. So we're talking about a weapon that is minimally 7.5' long. How is a smaller character going to wield that? Take Napoleon (now a warlord of course and was the New Haven squire, not Seaside - despite Seaside probably being more fitting for his piRATe self). Nappy stood 2 foot tall. Using a 7.5' glaive wasn't going to happen... but let's assume that we don't want to place a height requirement on our squires and that we really do want them using the weapons. That leaves me thinking it can shrink to fit.
So... if it can shrink to fit a squire - which I maintain seems only logical (as illogical as all things magic basically are) then I don't see why it could not also change its look in some way.
This is my long winded way of getting back to the shield changing its appearance based on the Overlord and Squire combination. We, or at least I and I think some of you, already believe it can change its size. Changing its look while still remaining a shield, doesn't seem to so large a divergence from this as to be something we should rule out.
Just my take.
~Kal
The assumptions is necessary for all of them I guess, but take the glaive of Seaside. Wikipedia tells me that a glaive is typically an 18" blade attached to a 6 or 7 foot pole. So we're talking about a weapon that is minimally 7.5' long. How is a smaller character going to wield that? Take Napoleon (now a warlord of course and was the New Haven squire, not Seaside - despite Seaside probably being more fitting for his piRATe self). Nappy stood 2 foot tall. Using a 7.5' glaive wasn't going to happen... but let's assume that we don't want to place a height requirement on our squires and that we really do want them using the weapons. That leaves me thinking it can shrink to fit.
So... if it can shrink to fit a squire - which I maintain seems only logical (as illogical as all things magic basically are) then I don't see why it could not also change its look in some way.
This is my long winded way of getting back to the shield changing its appearance based on the Overlord and Squire combination. We, or at least I and I think some of you, already believe it can change its size. Changing its look while still remaining a shield, doesn't seem to so large a divergence from this as to be something we should rule out.
Just my take.
~Kal
This is me thinking back some five or six years ago, but I recall after winning the Seaside glaive on Apple ( which I thought it was like illidans warglaives from WC3 and not a glaive-glaive for a few months ), I was told by the baroness at the time that they had enchanted it to change appearances. I could be forgetting it wrong, but it's something that stuck out to me, even if it was just player fluff instead of a DoS coord decision. All and all I thought it was a really cool thing at the time when my character was a squire, because it allowed me to look through pictures and try to find one that suited her.Kalamere wrote:This is my long winded way of getting back to the shield changing its appearance based on the Overlord and Squire combination. We, or at least I and I think some of you, already believe it can change its size. Changing its look while still remaining a shield, doesn't seem to so large a divergence from this as to be something we should rule out.
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