2016 Post-Mortem

[Harris]

Back in June Kalamere announced IFL would be going on hiatus for 2016, to return in 2017. When IFL was taken off the docket it opened up discussions about the impact of leagues, burnout, and a host of other event related topics. After a fivesome of major events in 2015 (DoS Madness, Ragnarok, Duel of Guns, Hydra, IFL) the community was at the oppostie end of the spectrum in 2016 as only two major events were hosted (DoS Madness, Hydra). With 2017 here and only two confirmed items scheduled (DoS Madness, IFL) I think it's worth touching base again to compare and contrast and allow event creators/coordinators to get a sense of the community atmosphere beforehand, rather than after the fact. This is a broad topic, but with seven months behind us since the last discussions it feels reasonable to gauge how or if opinions have changed, not only since June but also in reference to 2015's slew of activities. A few of the immediate questions that come to mind are...

-Was the community improved or better off in some way with less large scale events to choose from in 2016?

-If you had them, were any of your concerns about leagues directly addressed during IFL's absence? (Regulation attendance, new dueler participation, etc)

-In comparison to 2016 would you prefer more major events, less, or roughly the same?

By no means is this intended to be a survey. The above questions are merely starting points for consideration. Everyone is free to address the topic however they see fit.

[Delahada]

All I have to say is that I missed IFL terribly and can't wait for it to be back. Looking forward to another season of Madness, too. I honestly didn't notice anything different this past year from the one before. Regulation dueling didn't seem to improve, or get worse, without a large number of events running. All seemed the same to me.

[Goldglo]

For me personally (and I can't guarantee since this is like playing Monday Morning Quarterback in a way) - if we'd had IFL, I'd likely have been around more in the latter half/quarter of the year...or at least would have probably made an effort to have been around more in that period.

--Matt

[Andrea Anderson]

Not much really changed.. there's a cut in November 2016 compared to 2015. We might end up with a few more duels compared to last year all together, but players will need to pump 12+ duels before the 20th.

This year we saw a dip in dueling until the Terra-Master tournament was announced. This event was completely random though, since it required two title holders to be stripped from inactivity to help spark. I wouldn't know how to compare a rarity like this to the off chance that it might not have happened, and if it hadn't then it's guess work that the duels might not have the same numbers compared to last year while IFL was going on.. but that's me assuming and not hard facts.

Code: Select all

[2015 IFL Starts Oct 26th, Duel records start then.]

October
12

November [Toss the Loss night in DoM]
58

December
32

January [Ends on Jan 20th 2016 - Day IFL was fully complete.]
36

Total: 138

---------------------------

October [20th+, 2016]
19

November [Toss the Loss night in DoM]
25

December
71 [Terra-Master Tournament, DoS Christmas Event]

January
12 [Still Ongoing]

Total: 127

What I take from this is that the dueling climate was more active then compared to now. The Terra-Master tournament though, by promoting a double title-prize tournament entry spot for active dueling, did very well to spark interest in the game.

Now to step away from numbers. I personally didn't particpate in Hydra because I dislike the non-clear cut rules and the way it is run. So without IFL I wasn't left with much to do here until the Terra-Master tournament was announced. I most likely would have been more active if IRL were in place, but then I'd have to wonder if the Terra-Master tournament wouldn't have happened / handles the say way if IFL had been ongoing.

Here's the IFL 2014 -> 2015+ dueling trend graph I made last year to compare / get a feel for the numbers, if any want.


So nothing much changed beside the lack of participation from some players due to either IFL not coming back or not finding the game as fun anymore. These are the same usual trends and we've been seeing a steady decline of dueling / community members for a very good while now. See http://www.duelingzone.com/dz/reports/shiftreports.cfm <- this in comparison.

[Sabine]

I missed IFL but I'm not even sure if Sabine could/would have participated this year due to some storyline things that kept her away from the duels.

There were a lot of things do. Lots of mini events, squire tournaments, etc.

Some people seemed irked and meh after Hydra.

I don't know if the community was improved or not. There always seems to be some sort of mini-dramas between people and that's just the nature of the beast I think.

A lot of people who did IFL are not necessarily people who would have dueled regulation duels anyway.

I did not mind the amount of events going on. If people want to come they can, if not, that is okay too.

Themed nights and little bonuses seemed to bring in some people and occasionally those we don't see often. The squire tournaments were all a lot of fun too.


I have a head cold and can't think well, but there are some thoughts.

[Harris]

Kudos to the few people that have stepped forth to offer opinions and insight to help shape 2017 in a positive fashion. Is the lack of more responses this last week an indicator that the consensus is we're fine and don't need this platform for discussion?

[JewellRavenlock]

The main difference for me (and this is a personal difference and not intended to be an observation of the community at large) is that I feel excited about the upcoming big events again instead of, "Oh... another large event to support. Hurrah... I guess?"

I'm looking forward to Madness. I'm excited about the prospect of IFL in the fall.

I am responsible for my own feelings of burnout, if that was what I was experiencing, but I think there's also something to losing the novelty of large events if they happen too often. Just like non-dueling events. I kind of hate IC balls at this point (sometimes!). The novelty has worn off for me.

I did miss the buzz of posting that IFL creates on the boards. I missed the interactions within and between teams. I also really enjoyed the TerraMaster tournament though too.

Since Sylus said Hydra is not coming back in the summer, I considered asking how one goes about running InterGender Wars.

[Jaycy Ashleana]

Since Sylus said Hydra is not coming back in the summer, I considered asking how one goes about running InterGender Wars.

I would guess all you have to do is say you're running it, decide the parameters (sports/rules etc), coordinate the dates with the people in charge and get their okay, and go for it.

[JewellRavenlock]

Since Sylus said Hydra is not coming back in the summer, I considered asking how one goes about running InterGender Wars.

I would guess all you have to do is say you're running it, decide the parameters (sports/rules etc), coordinate the dates with the people in charge and get their okay, and go for it.

Sounds good to me :) I just wasn't sure who (if anyone) "owned" it. I do not wish to step on any toes.

[Harris]

Since Sylus said Hydra is not coming back in the summer, I considered asking how one goes about running InterGender Wars.

This only further emphasizes the need for feedback in this thread. The last Intergender War ran in 2011, before a number of current patrons were participating in the community. It's generally a 12 week, power dueling friendly event. Does the concept as it was presented 6 years ago need to be adjusted for the current climate? Will people need time to recover afterward, before IFL starts? Summer is 6 months away, offering plenty of time for Jewell to craft a successful event that doesn't wear on the community. But she can only do that with everyone's help beforehand to shape it.

[Andrea Anderson]

It's generally a 12 week, power dueling friendly event.

This really makes me think. Don't leagues "burn" players out when all they require is, if any, 1 duel (2 of you're on two teams) per week if you're set in the lineup? For maybe a 7 week season and 4 week playoff, which some teams won't even see the end of?

[DemiBob]

It's generally a 12 week, power dueling friendly event.

This really makes me think. Don't leagues "burn" players out when all they require is, if any, 1 duel (2 of you're on two teams) per week if you're set in the lineup? For maybe a 7 week season and 4 week playoff, which some teams won't even see the end of?

I think some (most?) of the burn out comes from what happens outside of the duels plus the pressure of needing to win so as not to let your team down (which is generally made of your ooc friends). Actually showing up to duel is mostly just annoying.

[Luna Eva]

Yeah, just to echo what Bob said, for me the reason why I found IFL (and team tournaments in general) so draining is because even if I'm only fighting once a week, those are some pretty high-pressure duels. In addition, I had the weekly decision-making responsibilities of a captain, and as a teammate, I also feel a sense of responsibility to show up to more fights than just my own. I also feel pressure to participate more on the forum boards which is fun, but serves as another drain on my time. I probably did not manage those demands very well in 2015 IFL, and I think I improved the balance for Hydra 2016. But it's still more than just one or two fights a week maximum.

Harris, I was reluctant to reply at first for a couple reasons. First, because our last discussion about this that you referenced in your first post at times felt acrimonious, and I was reluctant to rehash that discussion. The second reason is because the discussion was solicited by you, and not an Admin or Coordinator. I didn't feel confident that anyone with actual decision-making power was actually interested in hearing my opinion one more time.

But the last thing I want is for my silence to be interpreted as contentment. So this is what I've been thinking about 2016.

I personally did not miss IFL. I also know, and did recognize the last time we discussed this, that different people like different things on RoH. Regulation dueling is a priority and an ongoing concern to me, especially as a new dueler. That's the perspective I approach everything from. Without the last two years of me consistently showing up to get duels and look for new opponents in regulation dueling, I wouldn't be finding any of the small successes I have that make dueling fun to me. And because it worked for me, I see regulation dueling as essential to anyone wanting to become a regularly participating member of RoH. Success=fun, for me. A robust regulation where people can fight a variety of different opponents at a variety of levels could be really helpful to new players finding the fun in dueling. That's why I think it's pretty important.

Last year, I could be counted among those who wondered whether IFL was negatively effecting regulation long after it was over. But the period I'm most interested in seeing the effects of IFL's absence is the period we're in right now---after the holidays and into Madness, which is the post-IFL period I was most concerned about last year. Since that's still on-going, I'm comfortable holding my judgment until the next few months are through.

As others have pointed out however, thus far, IFL's absence does not seem to be positively affecting regulation. This makes sense to me because as we discovered in our previous discussion however many months ago, different people enjoy dueling in different ways---some enjoy only team tournaments, some enjoy going after titles, some are only interested in the cyclical tournaments. And, as many have pointed out to me over the last couple of years, these interests morph and change depending on any one individual's available time, history in the sport, ambition in the sport, etc. Making one change---skipping IFL for the year---was never going to be the panacea to solve regulation dueling's dwindling numbers.

If we want to grow regulation to account for the attrition or shifting interests of veteran players, which, as I've stated, is a personal concern of mine, we need to think about what appeals to and how to reach new players. This has obviously been discussed before---advertising on reddit, new member outreach, etc. I've seen some small and much-appreciated changes. But no meaningful or significant steps have come out of those conversations. I attribute this not to a lack of interest or concern within the community, but because of a lack of cohesive leadership.

I renew my suggestion that we create a Membership Coordinator position, a person who can lead advertising and outreach efforts without the additional responsibilities of coordinating any individual sport, or administering the site. And, ideally, this person would actually be able to communicate with a responsive administration.

All that said, at this point, I'm pretty individually discouraged about sharing my thoughts, yet again, about the future of of this site. I don't really know if anything we discuss here is received by someone willing and able to do anything about any of the suggestions made. The year 2016 has shifted some of my thoughts about how we might grow our community---for example, since it's so popular, maybe instead of thinking of IFL as a disruption to regulation dueling, maybe we think of it as the best advertisement for it, and reach outside of the current community this year. But even saying that, I'm not sure who I'm talking to. That is incredibly discouraging at this point.

I love playing here. I think I demonstrate my commitment in a multitude of ways not limited to my regular active participation, volunteering as a caller, creating my small events for the site, captaining teams in three of the last team tournaments , etc. I'll keep playing here as long as it can be fun for me and I feel like I'm a part of others' fun. But if I was reluctant to respond before, I think this explains why. Not because I'm content.

[DemiBob]

All that said, at this point, I'm pretty individually discouraged about sharing my thoughts, yet again, about the future of of this site.

RoH is basically doomed. It's not a matter of if, just when. I'll say it so others who may (or may not, in Eden's case) be thinking the same thing don't have to say it. Dueling as a game literally has the smallest player base I have ever seen in any game I have ever played, I've played some weird, obscure games. It also hasn't grown in any major way in the years I've been here. Advertising and bringing in brand new players to RDI and RoH remains the only action that sounds like it would change things in my opinion.

This is literally a topic for another conversation, though. As far as IFL goes, I don't plan on participating. Too much energy, effort, time, and stress. I can take the same people who play IFL with me and go do other stuff with them and enjoy it 100x more.

[Harris]

The second reason is because the discussion was solicited by you, and not an Admin or Coordinator. I didn't feel confident that anyone with actual decision-making power was actually interested in hearing my opinion one more time.

The actual decision making power is held by individual players, just like yourself. The only event(s) that are attached to a sport and therefore the power is vested in the staff are DoS Madness and Ragnarok. Rakeesh runs Duel of Guns separately. Sylus ran Hydra as a player well before he joined the staff and that's separate. IFL decision making is made unilaterally by Kalamere and isn't an official part of DoF. For that reason it seems logical to get in front of these events and move forward as a community to give those and any potential future event creators a gauge for what the atmosphere is. Anyone can step up and create or reinvent an event and more or less singularly hold power over it. Vocalizing what you think is best is the most basic power everyone participating has.

Regulation dueling is a priority and an ongoing concern to me, especially as a new dueler. That's the perspective I approach everything from. Without the last two years of me consistently showing up to get duels and look for new opponents in regulation dueling, I wouldn't be finding any of the small successes I have that make dueling fun to me. And because it worked for me, I see regulation dueling as essential to anyone wanting to become a regularly participating member of RoH. Success=fun, for me. A robust regulation where people can fight a variety of different opponents at a variety of levels could be really helpful to new players finding the fun in dueling. That's why I think it's pretty important.

This only further solidifies my point and harkens back to one of the initial questions in my original post. Your concern is regulation. Stating as much offers guidance to someone like Jewell who's considering running the InterGender War later this year. In the previous discussions in June a number of indiviuals voiced concerns about different things and went so far as to say they had ideas to boost this or improve that, none of which seemed to come to pass in the months IFL was absent.

All that said, at this point, I'm pretty individually discouraged about sharing my thoughts, yet again, about the future of of this site. I don't really know if anything we discuss here is received by someone willing and able to do anything about any of the suggestions made.

In reality all the smaller problems stem from much larger ones. There isn't a concerted effort made to expand this community in any meaningful way, beyond attempting to siphon players from the RDI, which does *just* enough to keep RoH afloat, or rather adrift. Unfortunately the bigger problems have to be solved by the upper admins. I understand your frustration. At the end of the day it simply becomes a matter of plugging the small holes you can find to keep the ship above water. That feeling of powerlessness can wear down even the most active, passionate contributors, which is why you see some people only sporadically. Gretzky said, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take". That tends to apply here, as silence isn't likely to engender the positive change you (general) want.

RoH is basically doomed.

RoH has been doomed since it moved from AOL to the internet around 2004, 13 years ago. I tell everyone the same thing. However bad you personally think RoH is now, it's been in worse places. The day these threads stop popping up and people stop running events for us to even discuss in the first place is when you know you're in dire straits.